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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:11 am 
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I am heartborken. I wonder what happened....

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:51 am 
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Could be a number of things.
Food stuck in the crop/throat, lead poisoning (although I think not) or it got too wet and cold. Being quite large it could not be sheltered any more by the parent and the weather has been unusually cold.
How ironic that the older eaglet, that was thriving and bullying the younger one, did not make it and the smaller one will now have a much better chance . . . :girlsad3:

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:07 pm 
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:tissue: :sorrow:


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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:48 pm 
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Sad but they were very serious about any intervention. I have my own feeling about that as we all do. :cryinggirl: We will see it more and more. I still think if you're going to put a cam up and watch the nest, then do the correct thing. What biologists would learn from is collecting the body.Just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:28 pm 
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I'm with you every step of the way Cheryl, now i won't even be able to look in on E4. I just can't look and see E3's body.

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:18 pm 
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Cheryl wrote:
Sad but they were very serious about any intervention. I have my own feeling about that as we all do. :cryinggirl: We will see it more and more. I still think if you're going to put a cam up and watch the nest, then do the correct thing. What biologists would learn from is collecting the body.Just my opinion.


I agree 100%...Its bad enough to lose a falcon chick, but at least the parent removes it from the nest. I don't think that's gonna happen here, but I do hope so...and I'm with you, KF, its really gonna be hard to check on E4..just seeing E3 there...I tried a couple times today...it was tough!!!


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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:42 am 
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This is the FB post from 22 hours ago.

"It is with heavy hearts, we bring you an update on E3- this season’s elder eaglet:

After a few days of a noticeable behavior change, E3’s health deteriorated and passed away in the nest early this morning.

While we may never know what caused the death of E3, we hope the documented videos and reports will help educate biologists and researchers & possibly save future eagles/eaglets.

We all mourn together with the reminder that we are merely observers; given the rare and unique opportunity to witness these eagles in the wild.

Soar high and free E3."


I am watching now, and while it is hard to watch with E3's body there, I am trying to just celebrate E4 and his earlier recovery from adversity. :flirty:

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:46 pm 
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I will only post this here...but, the only way they are gonna know what happened "..[maybe to] help educate biologists and researchers & possibly save future eagles/eaglets..." is to retrieve the body. (I think they made this statement to pacify people-sorry) I don't think I will ever change my stance on intervention...hopefully, I will eventually accept these "no intervention" policies...since I'm sure this mimics the natural world..but, I still believe if you operate a cam....well, you all know the rest. I just think of all the Harmons and Buddys of the world. they would all be dead without intervention.

I did check in to see how little E4 was doing...He was just a flapping away!!!


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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:51 pm 
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I hear you, but I think this may be the norm. Not that I like it one bit, because I don't.

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:31 pm 
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beautiful SGB! I must have same sequence of flapping.


Breakfast started at about 11:20 am with a piece of fish.
Sorry, couldn't finish the whole sequence while my first vid was too long.
So I cut it in my 2nd upload. Vid starts at the end of the feeding now.



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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:19 pm 
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Harriet is feeding eaglet while Ozzie eats his own meal.

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:28 pm 
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I'd like to share the moment of 9 am this morning with you

Obviously Ozz tries to cover E3... beautiful.
E4 is in front, that doesn 't make it easy.

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Perhaps if E3 gets covered and remains there, after E4 fledges perhaps the scientists can recover the body and make some determination of cause of death. It is so good to see E4 doing well.

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:49 am 
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:sum7:
http://youtu.be/25HVQOaUlfI

Thanks Dee Kelly

Here's the vid that Ioza linked to..(warning-Harriet defeathers E3)



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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:15 am 
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7.42 Put in order



7.47 Normal breakfast



8.20 Ozzi. Breakfast for E4-big fish




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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:58 am 
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I DO NOT SEE THIS AS A FEEDING. TO ME IT LOOKS MORE LIKELY A DISPERSAL ATTEMPT. E4 REACHES UP TO TAKE FROM PARENT AS THIS IS ALL HE KNOWS AT THIS STAGE IN HIS LIFE. I LATER SAW ADULT EAGLE PICK UP E3 AND MOVE EVEN CLOSER TO EDGE OF NEST. FOR A MINUTE I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO FLY AWAY WITH THE REMAINS, BUT DID NOT.


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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:43 pm 
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This was posted on the Eagle Friends FB page. (This is a closed group for Eagles4kids) Words from Marge Gibson (Raptor Education Group) on the Death of E3..and cam watching. (I personally should print this out and read it every day)

Marge Gibson


We are all heartbroken over the loss of E3. No one knows exactly what happened and likely we never will. She seemed healthy just days before her death, but lives are fragile. We all know that on some level, yet it is hard to accept the fragility of their lives in the wild without wishing to intervene.
Our life, human life so different. If a loved one become ill, without question medical help is sought. If human babies are born with defects, we stop at nothing to find a solution that will allow that child to survive. The cams allow us to view the life of wild birds in real time. We are allowed to see the lives of wild species unfold before our eyes. One of the caveats of that privilege is, we must remember they are living their lives, not ours.

According to USFWS, there must be no disturbance or manipulation of active wild eagle nests. That would include intervention in most cases. There are many good, even important, reasons for this. Wild species are genetically very strong. In order to remain that way in the natural world, the frail and those with defects do not survive to breed and to pass on those defects. Should that happen, the species itself would become weaker and the very survival of the species might be endangered. In the wild 70% of all raptors die during the first year of life. We do not watch that statistic unfold in real time, but I assure you, if we did, it would be gut-wrenching. It is vital that wild species be allowed to live their lives unencumbered by our human values. It is only because of their own specific life history that we have native species, including Bald Eagles, to learn from.

It is difficult to watch when things go wrong. For some of us, that means turning away from the cam group until we can once again observe without finding it painful. It is important to make the distinction that we are only observers in this process, privileged observers who can learn from, but not alter, the outcomes. The answer is not to change their lives...because those lives are absolutely perfect for them and for their species. We are not there to make changes in what is perfect. We have to remember that they are not human, just as we are not birds. One of the problems discussed before cams were allowed on any nests was that people may not be able to accept the struggles and difficulties in the lives of wild creatures. Accepting these difficult situations sometimes seen on the cameras isn’t easy.

Personally, I do not think E3 could have been saved even with intervention. She may have had pneumonia or perhaps a fish bone was caught in her crop or esophagus. She may have had a congenital heart defect that became apparent only when she reached a few weeks of age. This would be no one’s fault. We wish it were not so. We wish precious E3 hadn’t died, but she did. We must remember to be understanding of each other and to those who have installed and kept the cams up and running for all of us. There will be some individuals among us that will have to turn away from the cams when problems occur. If it has become overwhelming for you, please check out for a while until you can once again watch with a joyful heart. Don't be embarrassed if you find it hard. To be honest, I do this myself.

I have done both field work and wildlife rehabilitation for many years. Some people will tell you, particularly in reference to wildlife rehabilitation, that you get "used to” hard cases. I firmly feel that if you get "used" to it; if you truly feel nothing when you admit a patient with horrific injuries or poisoning, then you are in the wrong profession. Some very fine biologists may appear stern, but the reality is they are affected by these situations, just as everyone else is. They are the professionals, and they do have to handle things in a more "professional" manner. It may appear to those outside the field of biology that they do not care, but that is an illusion, a public face that has to be worn in hard times. They are handling it the best way possible while respecting the species. Much like a police officer responding to a difficult or tragic situation, you must sometimes keep inside what your heart wants to do and allow your head to do what must be done.
We are all in this together and dealing it with it the best we can. As a method of coping, sometimes our hearts want to blame others when we feel pain or hurt. We learn daily from our camera views of these magnificent birds. Sometimes we learn sad things, but there are times when we are "over the moon" in joy as well. While there are parallels between human lives and those of birds and animals, there are obvious differences. We must learn to celebrate the successes that we see through these “windows” into their world, and we must work to comprehend, as fully as we can, the harsh realities that we observe as well. We know that life is a complicated, marvelous, and mysterious mixture of experiences, events, and emotions. The cams have extended the perception of our families to include for the first time ever… that of wild species. Watching eagles in their most intimate moments as they solidify pair bonds, build nests including all those delightful moments of arranging crib rails and finally as they become parents may make us feel like they are our family too. We are therefore in the ride of life with them for better or worse. No matter if you are a viewer or a professional challenged to make the hard choices in regard to the eagles themselves, we are a rag tag kind of family with all the warts and foibles of any family. Take care, and remember: “To everything there is a season”…


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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Wow...what a fantastic post from Marge...
You are right MA-I should print this out and tape to my computer.

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 Post subject: Re: SOUTHWEST FLORIDA (Ft. Myers) Nov-Dec 2013-2014
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:13 pm 
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So eloquently stated. Thank you for bringing Marge's words here SGB.

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